Eh.. Wayne

[Sir Skiddz SoPhrenic]

your honestly letting your dislike of him get in the way of making an actual argument.

"The youth of 20 year old males still perferr Eminem & Jay alot more. Anyone old enough to know things knows they are better emcees, little kids also love Justin Bieber & feel him more than Nsync - what does that matter?"
Really, how many 20 year olds have you talked to ? Give me statistics to back that up. Anyone Old enough to know things ? How do you classify anyone into that category ? By the music they listen to or by their age ?


Jay Z influenced this in a much better way & produced good music from it - I can't be bothered to explain, but White Album, Collision Course etc etc, AUTO TUNE is not considered rock, it's more-so a joke than anything
yes, lets count the White Album(mashup) which was an unofficial mixtape and Collision Course(Mash up). Atleast Lil Wayne attempted to make new music. And like I said, his version of rock is terrible.. yet its opened up more doors for rappers to explore genres outside of hip hop and bring it to the mainstream.

"As for Kanye West --- Why does Kanye claim Jay is his mentor not Dame? Kanye is alot more loyal to Jay, Jay has helped him alot more than Dame"
Jay-Z didnt want to sign Kanye, didnt want to give him an album... he had to be convinced by Dame Dash and No I.D. Thats why Dame was upset at Kanye when the whole break up happened.

"Just because Jay doesn't sign artists doesn't mean he's not RESPONSIBLE for the likes of Young Jeezy, Rhianna, Rick Ross, ok next"
Yes and dont you find it ironic that during that same time table Jay-Z was pushing them while keeping acts like THE ROOTS, METHOD MAN, GHOSTFACE, JOE BUDDEN, REDMAN, LL COOL J(lol) on the backburner. How many complaints did we hear about Def Jam during those times? But on that note, yeah I guess Jay really did help revolutionize Hip Hop.

What Im trying to say is that in terms of the last decade and especially in terms of the last 5 years, Lil Wayne has accomplished enough not to garner as much respect as Jay or Em in terms of quality but in pushing Hip Hop as a brand. Opinions on his music or not are irrelevant and i know i brought those claims up on my part as well. But as moving hip hop forward as a brand, I think Lil Wayne should be up there with Em and Jay. So should 50 Cent and Kanye West.
And remember Em and Jay sold a majority of their albums in the beginning of the decade, where an artist couldve been considered a flop if they went gold. Lil Wayne's Carter 3 did its numbers when going gold is considered a successful cd. Just a little perspective.

"Lil Wayne is like the less influencial, less successfull 50 Cent. People are already getting sick of Waynes mediocre music.."
again a general statement. What People ? Because on my front I see alot of both. He still has a lot of fans. He still has a lot of haters. Thats the kind of fanbase you want in order to keep some sort of hype for anything you do. Granted, Lil Wayne has also had a long career, but he didnt become a star until after the Carter 2. I think since that time he has made himself more marketable without alienating his fanbase. Im not trying to argue music. Im trying to give him credit for what he's been able to accomplish.

[Tebo]

The only thing I wanna comment about your comments to mine is the Jay Z pushing other rappers on the backburner - yes he may of done that, but that does not discriminate the fact he gave us people like Rhiana, Young Jeezy, Rick Ross, Neyo


What's going to be Lil Waynes downfall is - nobody can deny there are more talented artists, including the 2 your trying to group him in with.. people will get sick of his music because he doesn't have the everlasting skill. He's multiple albums deep & doesn't have an album yet where majority of everyone agrees is a ''verified classic''

I just know I had alot of friends who loved Wayne b4, even went to his concert, & alot of them think he's wack now & has fallen off, I don't think Wayne is gaining fans as he continues ATM I think he's lost more than gained from his auto tune & rock bullshit.

The people who like Wayne & don't care about the bullshit are also the ones who jump ship for the ''next big thing'' if true hip hop heads can't defend his music & skills, how does he plan to last? By doing a pop album next?

also saying Wayne expanded rock to rap is like saying Vanilla Ice made it cool to be a white rapper

Jay Z & Eminem have stayed on top during their times in rap, they have not fallen. Wayne wasn't even known, still doesn't have a classic & has already had bodies of work he hasn't done better than in several years.

I just think we've all seen far better & more successfull rappers come & fade. I don't see how Wayne will be any different when he can't match the skills or classics that the top rappers over the years have came with.

[Sir Skiddz SoPhrenic]

The only thing I wanna comment about your comments to mine is the Jay Z pushing other rappers on the backburner - yes he may of done that, but that does not discriminate the fact he gave us people like Rhiana, Young Jeezy, Rick Ross, Neyo


What's going to be Lil Waynes downfall is - nobody can deny there are more talented artists, including the 2 your trying to group him in with.. people will get sick of his music because he doesn't have the everlasting skill. He's multiple albums deep & doesn't have an album yet where majority of everyone agrees is a ''verified classic''

I just know I had alot of friends who loved Wayne b4, even went to his concert, & alot of them think he's wack now & has fallen off, I don't think Wayne is gaining fans as he continues ATM I think he's lost more than gained from his auto tune & rock bullshit.

The people who like Wayne & don't care about the bullshit are also the ones who jump ship for the ''next big thing'' if true hip hop heads can't defend his music & skills, how does he plan to last? By doing a pop album next?

also saying Wayne expanded rock to rap is like saying Vanilla Ice made it cool to be a white rapper

Jay Z & Eminem have stayed on top during their times in rap, they have not fallen. Wayne wasn't even known, still doesn't have a classic & has already had bodies of work he hasn't done better than in several years.

I just think we've all seen far better & more successfull rappers come & fade. I don't see how Wayne will be any different when he can't match the skills or classics that the top rappers over the years have came with.

Your still talking in terms of how you like him. Ignoring the numbers that are right there. Yeah he doesnt have a classic, but he sold a shit load of albums. I can just as easily say that Eminem doesnt have a classic and has done the same.

"The people who like Wayne & don't care about the bullshit are also the ones who jump ship for the ''next big thing'' if true hip hop heads can't defend his music & skills, how does he plan to last? By doing a pop album next?"
-stop generalizing, you dont know everyone who likes Wayne. Period.

also saying Wayne expanded rock to rap is like saying Vanilla Ice made it cool to be a white rapper
-Whats wrong with that? Without Vanilla Ice there's no Eminem. Because Eminem turned out to be everything that Vanilla Ice wasn't. That helped in his success did it not ?

"I just know I had alot of friends who loved Wayne b4, even went to his concert, & alot of them think he's wack now & has fallen off, I don't think Wayne is gaining fans as he continues ATM I think he's lost more than gained from his auto tune & rock bullshit."
-your basing your generalizations on your circle of friends. Limiting yourself. You get me some polls or some stats to back your statement up. My statements defending Wayne speak for themselves. Check the hits on his youtube pages, check the amount of downloads he has. Why are one of his mixtapes always on the top page of Datpiff? Why does he get so much coverage if he so much as sneezes in public ? Because all these media outlets are trying to cater to his fanbase as much as possible.

"
What's going to be Lil Waynes downfall is - nobody can deny there are more talented artists, including the 2 your trying to group him in with.. people will get sick of his music because he doesn't have the everlasting skill. He's multiple albums deep & doesn't have an album yet where majority of everyone agrees is a ''verified classic''"
- your using your opinion of him to try to turn it into fact. Sorry but define everlasting skill? Why do Jay-Z and Eminem have it and Wayne doesn't ? Because they make the music you like and he doesn't ? I can reverse that argument and the numbers can possibly back me up. Jay isn't selling like he was in the beginning of his career and neither is Eminem.

"The only thing I wanna comment about your comments to mine is the Jay Z pushing other rappers on the backburner - yes he may of done that, but that does not discriminate the fact he gave us people like Rhiana, Young Jeezy, Rick Ross, Neyo "
-well for one.. that wasnt the only thing you commented on. Now your justifying Jay-Z putting veterans of hip hop on the backburner with people who are in the same generation in which lil wayne blew up in. Funny that for being a predominantly Hip Hop Label you'd mention Rihanna and Ne-Yo. Ironic that its their names we can really associate with Def Jam. As for Ross and Jeezy, I like both of them, I do. But can we also say that they have left the legacies that the roots, meth, red, etc. have made. Yes, they've sold more, than those acts have in the past few years.
Bringing up quality of music is irrelevant once again because for every one person who likes 36 Chambers there can be someone who like Thug Motivation 102 better. Though we obviously both know which one gets the classic tag.

I can argue till my face is blue that reasonable doubt isnt a good album. I can argue that Marshall Mathers LP is the worse thing to have ever come out. Thats irrelevant... because those albums are part of the legacies they left. Even if I dont like them, I respect the impact they both have made. Just like you have to realize and understand that Lil Wayne has also made an impact on hip hop. His mark is made and music has changed in part because of him.

Now I am a huge fan of Em and Jay dont get it twisted lol and I do not like Lil Wayne anywhere as much as I like them, but I understand that Lil Wayne is an important figure in hip hop, whether I like it or not.

[Tebo]

Your still talking in terms of how you like him. Ignoring the numbers that are right there. Yeah he doesnt have a classic, but he sold a shit load of albums. I can just as easily say that Eminem doesnt have a classic and has done the same.

Except Eminems sold 100 million records worldwide, Wayne has sold 10 mill worldwide

-Whats wrong with that? Without Vanilla Ice there's no Eminem. Because Eminem turned out to be everything that Vanilla Ice wasn't. That helped in his success did it not ?

Nobody compared him to Vanilla Ice, if there was no Vanilla Ice it wouldn't of mattered, there was still rappers around like Vinnie Paz, Vanilla Ice didn't help Eminem, & how did Waynes rock album help anyone or anything? It didn't... Wayne didn't do anything to make it a rock album, he holds a guitar but doesn't know how to play - thats the most rock he's gone, none of the songs are rock

-your basing your generalizations on your circle of friends. Limiting yourself. You get me some polls or some stats to back your statement up. My statements defending Wayne speak for themselves. Check the hits on his youtube pages, check the amount of downloads he has. Why are one of his mixtapes always on the top page of Datpiff? Why does he get so much coverage if he so much as sneezes in public ? Because all these media outlets are trying to cater to his fanbase as much as possible.

Wayne having the worst album of the year hurt the combination of rock & rap more than it did ''expanding them'' if other big name rappers did mixtapes like that IE: Jay or Em they would probly be more successfull

- your using your opinion of him to try to turn it into fact. Sorry but define everlasting skill? Why do Jay-Z and Eminem have it and Wayne doesn't ? Because they make the music you like and he doesn't ? I can reverse that argument and the numbers can possibly back me up. Jay isn't selling like he was in the beginning of his career and neither is Eminem.

what number? Wayne has no real numbers compared to them, compared to Nelly, 50 Cent, DMX, Ludacris off the top of my head


-well for one.. that wasnt the only thing you commented on. Now your justifying Jay-Z putting veterans of hip hop on the backburner with people who are in the same generation in which lil wayne blew up in. Funny that for being a predominantly Hip Hop Label you'd mention Rihanna and Ne-Yo. Ironic that its their names we can really associate with Def Jam. As for Ross and Jeezy, I like both of them, I do. But can we also say that they have left the legacies that the roots, meth, red, etc. have made. Yes, they've sold more, than those acts have in the past few years.
Bringing up quality of music is irrelevant once again because for every one person who likes 36 Chambers there can be someone who like Thug Motivation 102 better. Though we obviously both know which one gets the classic tag.

Considering you mentioned Drake (his album was more R&B than anything & nicki Minaj (more pop than anything) what's wrong with naming Rhianna & Neyo?

I can argue till my face is blue that reasonable doubt isnt a good album. I can argue that Marshall Mathers LP is the worse thing to have ever come out. Thats irrelevant... because those albums are part of the legacies they left. Even if I dont like them, I respect the impact they both have made. Just like you have to realize and understand that Lil Wayne has also made an impact on hip hop. His mark is made and music has changed in part because of him.

Well MMLP sold 25 mill tho, that's over double of Waynes whole total, yet you keep bringing numbers up? Again what exactly is Lil Waynes impact?

Now I am a huge fan of Em and Jay dont get it twisted lol and I do not like Lil Wayne anywhere as much as I like them, but I understand that Lil Wayne is an important figure in hip hop, whether I like it or not.

I don't see how he has made a difference to last in the game, so many others have made bigger impacts yet fell irrelevant

ghgfjhf

[Caesar Augustus]

I don't think Wayne is as important as he is hot. It's really not about skill at all as much as it is getting your single played on the radio or your name out there and seeing as the radio stations play Wayne all day he is who they flock to. Just like Ross, or any other hot artist. I mean Wayne gets respect but no one with in the hip hop world who hasn't been paid o respect wayne, like BET or MTV really give Wayne that same respect as Jay or Em in their primes or Jay right now.

[Sir Skiddz SoPhrenic]

Ok you know what, you just keep missing the point of what im trying to say. Im done here, I have to go out and I dont have the time to argue with someone who isnt trying to understand what Im trying to get at. Your really not, so nevertheless, have a Merry Christmas. I've defended Lil Wayne more today then I have for a whole year. You avoided everything I said. Shit You even agreed with my first point and still were arguing against it. So just enjoy man, if you want to call it your victory go ahead. I could care less.

[Caesar Augustus]

Ok you know what, you just keep missing the point of what im trying to say. Im done here, I have to go out and I dont have the time to argue with someone who isnt trying to understand what Im trying to get at. Your really not, so nevertheless, have a Merry Christmas. I've defended Lil Wayne more today then I have for a whole year. You avoided everything I said. Shit You even agreed with my first point and still were arguing against it. So just enjoy man, if you want to call it your victory go ahead. I could care less.

I understand what you are saying that he made a difference in hip hope. And he is currently the standard in mainstream music and has done things that deserve to be respected. I however just wanted to say, not on the Level Jay or Em has. And you know I don't even like Em.

[Tebo]

It's not a victory until you realise Lil Wayne doesn't have a lasting influence & that he should not be on Jay Z's level, it's only a victory once you see that!

[Leonidas]

Very nice points you made there Skiddz..I pretty much agree with 100% of the stuff you said.

And Tebo, I'm not down to get into arguing with you about any of this because your built up hate for Wayne won't let you see otherwise. And Skiddz said basically everything I would say..But I keep seeing you say Lil Wayne has sold 10 Million albums total throughout his career. Where are you getting these numbers from? Link?

[Menace II Society]

Very nice points you made there Skiddz..I pretty much agree with 100% of the stuff you said.

And Tebo, I'm not down to get into arguing with you about any of this because your built up hate for Wayne won't let you see otherwise. And Skiddz said basically everything I would say..But I keep seeing you say Lil Wayne has sold 10 Million albums total throughout his career. Where are you getting these numbers from? Link?

Lol @ the bold. Of course you do.

As for numbers..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil_Wayne_discography

Here you go..

And before you try to knock the source.. it has references to where it got the information from. And I don't think the RIAA/CRIA is false.

But I'm sure you will somehow say it is.

[Leonidas]

I see the Gold, Platinum,etc..I'm talking about actual numbers of to date sales that the albums have sold though. Not the certifications.

But I'm going to bed..Maybe check this tomorrow if I wind up getting on the computer. Merry Christmas.

[Menace II Society]

Lol. See that right there.. that's the same bullshit you ALWAYS pull.. which is you refusing to take facts given to you. And then trying to turn into a "well.. this is what I want now" situation. Because no matter how many times people lay down the facts.. you still manage to pull the same old shit. I stayed quiet during your tiff with Tebo.. but I noticed you avoid facts. And at some point you will have to stop doing that and accept it for what it is.

But whatever.. it's pointless to even bother with you. If I pulled out exact numbers you would still pull the same old C.A.S. shit. So.. I'm not going to bother going down this road with you again. It's going to end up the same it always does with you.

Peace guy.

[Zanny Willson]

Lol @ the bold. Of course you do.

Okay, no offense. I like Cas and all but when I saw Skiddz' post I knew he was going to agree with it...

[Sir Skiddz SoPhrenic]

I understand what you are saying that he made a difference in hip hope. And he is currently the standard in mainstream music and has done things that deserve to be respected. I however just wanted to say, not on the Level Jay or Em has. And you know I don't even like Em.

I may have been to extreme when I said that but I do feel he warrants the respect we give them as game changers. But Im glad you see the point Im trying to make. I honestly dont believe Lil Wayne is a good or bad rapper, but taking a step back, you can obviously see that he has made an impact, as much as it hurts me to say it

[Caesar Augustus]

I may have been to extreme when I said that but I do feel he warrants the respect we give them as game changers. But Im glad you see the point Im trying to make. I honestly dont believe Lil Wayne is a good or bad rapper, but taking a step back, you can obviously see that he has made an impact, as much as it hurts me to say it

I don't think its a good impact though.
I mean I respect his grind, but I don't need the same song 100 times and only a small amount be good.

I don't care about swag as much as skill.

I don't think money and sales is the end all be all but if yo udo cool.

I just respect he worked hard enough to get where he is, but following someone then having 100 people follow you when you really stand for nothing is not always a good thing.

Sometime people follow people down dark alleys. Not always the best idea.